tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.comments2023-05-09T11:55:00.328-04:00Christianity In HistoryPuritan Ladhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comBlogger122125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-63705985432733822912015-03-30T08:18:45.698-04:002015-03-30T08:18:45.698-04:00Gary,
A couple of points:
1.) The truth of the ...Gary,<br /><br />A couple of points:<br /><br />1.) The truth of the resurrection of Jesus Christ is not contingent upon what the Romans believed about their Gods, and Justin does not claim such.<br /><br />2.) We are well aware of what "vast bulk of the Jews" believed. So what? Argumentum ad Populum.<br /><br />3.) I'm granting a little leeway here, but this is an eschatology post, not one for debating the resurrection. Please stay on topic.Puritan Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-33798826688327139272015-03-27T21:10:45.313-04:002015-03-27T21:10:45.313-04:00
Jupiter
Justin Martyr makes known in his Fi...<br /><br /> <br />Jupiter <br /> Justin Martyr makes known in his First Apology, at Chapter 21:<br /><br /> "And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter."<br /><br /> In making claims regarding Christ's virgin birth, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension into heaven, Justin is saying nothing different than what the Romans had maintained of their gods. <br /><br /> The vast bulk of the Jews rejected the notion of Jesus being god incarnate and all the attendant mythological paraphernalia...right to this very day. <br /><br /> The stories of a Virgin Birth and a Resurrection, which appear in four anonymous late first century Christian works of literature, are based on Roman mythology, folks. Let's just accept the obvious: The Gospel stories are myths. Even one of the earliest Church Fathers admits it. Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-86478449294162351052014-09-20T10:21:05.110-04:002014-09-20T10:21:05.110-04:00As far as his date being wrong. If one accept all...As far as his date being wrong. If one accept all of his Logic but his Creation date, which among other things was probably wrong because of Septuagint Favoring. <br /><br />A Masoretic Text based dating usually points to our time. Ussher had the year 6000 in 1997. But if if Ussher was wrong only on how to line up Abraham's birth with Terah's. That gives us 2057. <br /><br />I would not sate any of those dates however. Premillenism does not require 6000 years alignment.<br /><br />I'll say this, given what Hiuppoytus thought would happen, like Rome needing to fall first. The generation approaching 530 could have felt like he was being proven right.Kuudere-Kunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06537085979461349854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-11029836374259498182014-09-18T14:14:29.418-04:002014-09-18T14:14:29.418-04:00Michael,
The purpose of this post is to counter t...Michael,<br /><br />The purpose of this post is to counter the argument that Premillenialism has always been the predominant view of the church. What better way to answer the question then to examine the writings of the church fathers?<br /><br />Now as to whether or not they were correct, that is another question. We may solve it only by going to the source, Holy Scripture. Error in interpretation does not equal lack of clarity.Puritan Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-76551052012101868922014-09-18T14:09:24.402-04:002014-09-18T14:09:24.402-04:00Hazakim1,
Are you attempting to make an argument ...Hazakim1,<br /><br />Are you attempting to make an argument to the contrary, or just making an assertion?Puritan Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-60934348995245563082014-09-18T13:12:26.318-04:002014-09-18T13:12:26.318-04:00Well if you can argue that the disciples were amil...Well if you can argue that the disciples were amill....I guess you can twist Irenaus's words as well.<br /><br />Arenaeus an amiller? This is one of the funniest claims I've ever seen. Hazakim1https://www.blogger.com/profile/18348539522505015697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-34884325548787844282014-08-25T10:40:58.799-04:002014-08-25T10:40:58.799-04:00Like I wrote in another post, the point about the ...Like I wrote in another post, the point about the church fathers is what they actually believed. Whether or not they were right in what they believed is another debate. Clearly, there were very few premills.Puritan Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-22035302667515675542014-08-25T10:38:16.263-04:002014-08-25T10:38:16.263-04:00JaredMithrandir,
How exactly is orthodox Judaism ...JaredMithrandir,<br /><br />How exactly is orthodox Judaism practiced without a temple?Puritan Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-82060505144028413022014-08-25T10:35:00.245-04:002014-08-25T10:35:00.245-04:00JaredMithrandir,
The purpose of the eschatology p...JaredMithrandir,<br /><br />The purpose of the eschatology portion of this blog is to examine what the church fathers actually believed concerning the end times. It is often assumed (wrongly) that they were mostly premill.<br /><br />Now whether or not they church fathers were correct in their interpretation is another debate.Puritan Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-79328539245694212822014-08-25T10:20:47.073-04:002014-08-25T10:20:47.073-04:00"The set date for Christ’s advent, as well as..."The set date for Christ’s advent, as well as an absence of world kingdom between the Rome and Christ’s Advent, make the writings of Hippolytus to be incompatible with modern premillennialism."<br /><br />His view is compatibly perfectly with Post-Tribulaitonism, as close to "Modern" post Tribulaitonism as someone living in his day could be.<br /><br />Your admitting Hipolytus was Premillenial and Futurist undemriens your convoluted argument about Irenaus. All Hipolytus did was expand on what his mentor irenaus believed.Kuudere-Kunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06537085979461349854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-83484060873585887022014-08-25T10:15:39.030-04:002014-08-25T10:15:39.030-04:00His statement on Anitchrist comletly undermine any...His statement on Anitchrist comletly undermine any argument he held to Preterism as it's defined today. Lots of Futurists believe some Bible Prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD<br /><br />The thing about thinking Jesus lived till 50 is greatly mis used, he did mean what you think he means. I'd read a good srticle on that once but I don't think I know how to find anymore more.<br /><br />And the End of the World is a matter of how you look at things. Even today we casually link the events Futurists associated with the 70th week of Daniel's the End of the World.Kuudere-Kunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06537085979461349854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-37350724658599412472014-08-25T10:07:57.245-04:002014-08-25T10:07:57.245-04:00Fact is, if it's written before 70 AD it can&#...Fact is, if it's written before 70 AD it can't be used to support or oppose a Preterist view of Prophecy. Just like how you respond to latter emphasizes on Imminence. Them believing it would happen in their lifetime simply makes them wrong.Kuudere-Kunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06537085979461349854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-87717040484415883392014-08-25T10:02:42.257-04:002014-08-25T10:02:42.257-04:00Judaism was still practiced in Jerusalem all the w...Judaism was still practiced in Jerusalem all the way till the bark-Kohcba revolt. Actually a Remnant always remained there.<br /><br />But if your logic for proving Preterism is that he was speaking before 70 AD and thought it would happen soon. The same argument Futurist use to response to how Preterists misquote The Bible itself applies.Kuudere-Kunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06537085979461349854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-46582801071711701122014-08-25T09:58:59.020-04:002014-08-25T09:58:59.020-04:00Some from of Replacement theology became popular a...Some from of Replacement theology became popular after the Bar-Kochba revolt because of Anit-Semitism, so yes the Church Fathers tend to be Amilenla/Preterist of Post-Trib. But that's because of errors that entered the Church very early one.<br /><br />An interpretation being new isn't evidence against it. Daniel 12 tells us knwodge of God's word will increase over he course of the End Times, which I view to an extent as the entire Church Age.Kuudere-Kunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06537085979461349854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-33582548022472905552014-08-25T09:53:01.481-04:002014-08-25T09:53:01.481-04:00"ugh" teaching that Jews who reject Jesu..."ugh" teaching that Jews who reject Jesus aren't saved isn't the same as denying their national Covenant still stands.<br /><br />In fact that's what the vast majority fo dispensaitonalist Pre-Millenals beleive.<br /><br />I however do NOT believe the Millennium is the Davidic Covenant, I believe the New Jerusalem is the fulfillment of both the Davidic Covenant and The Church. Kuudere-Kunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06537085979461349854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-66395046002437050342014-01-16T13:38:09.081-05:002014-01-16T13:38:09.081-05:00I must say that I have studied partial preterist p...I must say that I have studied partial preterist postmillennialism and partial preterist historic premillennialism; however, I accept never. I believe in realized millennialism and accept a partial preterists view. The millennium is the Church Age and will last until Jesus returns to establish the new heavens and new earth. As an Amillennialist, I can believe that the world has gotten better; however, there will be no paradise again in this world. The prophesies of the Old Testament refer to the Church or the new heaven and new earth. There will be one general judgment and a general resurrection. The millennium will last for an indefinite period of time.<br /><br />Charles Miller, BA, MAR Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-1237980234732456552013-01-24T11:44:30.016-05:002013-01-24T11:44:30.016-05:00I believe it worth mentioning, the Catholic church...I believe it worth mentioning, the Catholic church in 382AD had this Latin 'Millennium' translated from the original Greek numeric 'Chilioi'.<br /><br />Since then, the Catholic church has strongly condemned the commonly taught millennium teachings. Saying the Kingdom of Christ began at His ministry, and saints reign-serve with Christ since this same ministry.Anonymoushttp://rtpricetag.home.comcast.net/Millennium.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-35507438224939407022012-08-29T13:04:50.946-04:002012-08-29T13:04:50.946-04:00This conversation has been going on a long time --...This conversation has been going on a long time -- 07-2012 --- cool. I want to point this out about the church fathers. Saying, "the church taught" or "the church believed" based on the writing of the church fathers is a bit off base. It's like a researcher in the year 2525 looking at the thousands of commentaries written in the 19th - 21st. centuries and saying, "the church taught this." I suppose it would be correct, since across 30 thousand different churches in protestant world some churches did teach it.<br />BUT protestants don't get this: for the first 1159 years of Christianity, there was one church, defending the faith of the church.<br />Within that church there were sincere theologians that taught differences. BUT what the church thought and taught as accepted dogma can only be found in their creeds. That's why they wrote them.<br /><br />According to the Creeds? AMillennial!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07525712053595099149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-27403179431818736022012-08-25T17:57:46.427-04:002012-08-25T17:57:46.427-04:00To say there is a millennium after THE resurrectio...To say there is a millennium after THE resurrection is not the same thing as saying THE millennium after A resurrection as premill teaches. The ancients actually saw 8 millennia. One was the true Sabbath that Barnabas and the Book of Hebrews talk about.Alan Fullerhttp://www.lulu.com/arfullernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-23670709841658418292012-07-03T03:06:13.607-04:002012-07-03T03:06:13.607-04:00The disciples were most certainly talking about a ...The disciples were most certainly talking about a Holy Kingdom, much as Christ warned the Pharasee in doubt and error, saying they would not see it with their close observation, nor would others say here or there it is, Christ said the Kingdom (spiritual) was within. Christ also told about the eternal Israel, saying in His Fathers house were many rooms, Christ saying He was going to prepare a place for the saints, and He would return again to take the saints to be where He was. Revelation saying it as New Jerusalem) is revealed or comes down out of heaven.<br /><br />Apostle John is quoted as saying about the earliest teaching in 1st century church by Cerinthus...<br />[Eusebius's Eccl. Hist., V. 24], states that while John was at Ephesus, he entered a bath to wash and found that Cerinthus was within, and refused to bathe in the same bath house, but left the building, and exhorted those with him to do the same, saying, "Let us flee, lest the bath fall in, as long as Cerinthus, that enemy of the truth, is within."—Eusebius's Eccl. Hist., III. 28. <br /><br />The Latin "Millennium" did not even exist until around 382AD, when Pope Damasas had saint Jerome translate the NT Greek text into Latin, the Greek 'Chilioi' (plural Thousands in English) was translated into Mille, a fixed thousand.DeWaynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03765475678215006024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-6632271525930345952012-06-19T08:30:34.622-04:002012-06-19T08:30:34.622-04:00Thanks Dee Dee,
I just subscribed to your podcast...Thanks Dee Dee,<br /><br />I just subscribed to your podcast. Good stuff.Puritan Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-28204610827439278192012-06-18T21:29:13.427-04:002012-06-18T21:29:13.427-04:00Cerinthius was a heretic. Not a good example.Cerinthius was a heretic. Not a good example.Dee Dee Warrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12528366608246985752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-60798233835507362152012-06-18T21:28:27.139-04:002012-06-18T21:28:27.139-04:00Cerinthius was a heretic... not so great an exampl...Cerinthius was a heretic... not so great an exampleDee Dee Warrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12528366608246985752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-41454408751860770352012-03-21T08:45:11.771-04:002012-03-21T08:45:11.771-04:00Anonymous,
Jesus said that he had ALL authority, ...Anonymous,<br /><br />Jesus said that he had ALL authority, in heaven and on earth. Was he wrong?<br /><br />I agree that Christ is returning, but cannot find any mention of an earthly millenniun in Scripture.<br /><br />Why does 2 Thess. mention the temple? You tell us that "2Thess tells us Christ now holds Satan back" (even though that's not what it says.) I have other questions concerning this, as well as the other passages, but we'll get there. But you haven't shown anything that mentions a premillennial advent or an earthly millennium.Puritan Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240560332777968090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8899891504265940188.post-51471027662411189012012-03-21T01:18:33.268-04:002012-03-21T01:18:33.268-04:00The Kingdom of God we know is not on this earth, b...The Kingdom of God we know is not on this earth, but in heaven called also Paradise, and at this time within us (as HS).<br />Christ assured that He was going to prepare a place for us, that He would return to take the saints back to be where He is, saying some would know the way?<br />Satan was cast out of heaven but once, Isaiah describing this saying into the <b>grave/Hell and the pit/Abyss</b>, Rev-20 confirms this. Paul in 2Thess tells us Christ now holds Satan back, altho Satan and his are spiritually active in the world now.<br />Revelation-12 describes after Satan cast out of heaven, saying a loud voice from heaven announces this bringd <b>salvation</b> and the <b>power and the kingdom of our God</b>, and the <b>authority of his Chris.</b><br />This means that the upright and righteous after Christ rising in victory over death, brought these having a part in the first resurrection, also giving gifts to men. The Apostle then teach at death the saints now go to be with the Lord.<br />This means those now (saved) having the HS are also part of those that (now) reign with Christ.<br />Revelation-20 read fully describes the end/last days ending in judgment, all wicked destroyed along with this corrupted heavens and earth.<br />The only scripture describing a people ruling over others in end/last days, is at the release of Satan from the Abyss, and that for only a short time. Eternity is not a Thousand years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com